Truth in Media Global Watch Bulletins

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TiM GW Bulletin 2000/5-2

May 7, 2000

May 2000

TiM Readers' Forum

Your Turn... 

FROM CINCINNATI, OHIOTopic: READERS' FORUM


HEADLINES

Some reactions to... "NATO Covering Up Its Losses" (TiM GW Bulletin 2000/5-1, May 4, 2000)

Kosovo                                   A Comment from a KFOR Soldier: Exaggerated Losses

Australia                                 Portuguese Soldiers in Angola Never Died in Action, Either;

                                                Only in “Accidents”

U.S. (state unknown)              U.S. Deaths in Somalia, Other “Accidents”  

Texas                                      It's Time Americans United to Bring Back Our Country May 7, 2000

Virginia                                   All Those "Training Accidents” Last Spring May 8, 2000

New York                               Decorated U.S. Veteran, Now Lawyer, on "Stealth" Bodies May 9, 2000

South Carolina                       Love Your Site and Your Stand for Truth and Freedom in America May 9, 2000

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Some reactions to... "U.S. Air Force's Readiness at 15-Year Low" (TiM GW Bulletin 2000/5-1, May 4, 2000)

Canada                                  USAF Paying $5K for New Recruits to Sign Up May 9, 2000

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Some reactions to... "FreeRepublic's Truth Censorship" (TiM GW Bulletin 2000/5-1, May 4, 2000)

Illinois                                     Calling for Death of U.S. Servicemen?

Belgrade                                 Not True! Prove It! (Banned Serb Member of FreeRepublic)

Maryland                                You Should Apologize to Robinson at FreeRepublic

Cincinnati                               Some Other Examples of FR Censorship  

Virginia                                   FreeRepublic Bans Top Foster Death Researcher May 9, 2000

Belgrade                                 Original “Offending” FR Post

Belgrade                                 Excerpts from FR Exchanges with Serb Poster

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Some reactions to... "Blair Upstaged by Putin" (TiM GW Bulletin 2000/4-6, Apr. 21, 2000)

U.S. (state unknown)              Great Bulletin!

Some reactions to... "One Traitor Exposed, Many More to Go" (TiM GW Bulletin 2000/4-5, Apr. 19, 2000)

U.S. (state unknown)              A Case of High Tech Treason

Texas                                      What If It Were Serbia?

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Some reactions to... “Slavic ‘Montezuma Revenge’” (TiM GW Bulletin 2000/4-7, April 24, 2000)

Holland                                    Biggest NATO Patsy? Plus, Why the Clinton Administration Encouraged Higher Oil PricesMay 9, 2000

Some reactions to... "FreeRepublic's Truth Censorship" (TiM GW Bulletin 2000/5-1, Apr. 21, 2000)

Kosovo - A Comment from a KFOR Soldier: Exaggerated Losses

KOSOVO, May 5 - We received the following feedback from Christopher Spratley, a member of the U.S. KFOR contingent in Kosovo:

I am a member of the KFOR "operation"... I will state this: The story I read regarding the shooting down of all those aircraft is crap. Trust me, I would have known.

There were a few aircraft shot down, the F-16 and the stealth fighter, but no bomber... the B-2 wasn't shot down... There were a "number" of planes damaged, of course... but not even close to the amount the Russians and (the) Serbs are saying...

It seems to me that your organization is more willing to listen to the propaganda machine of the "evil empire" of old... Don’t you remember the old Soviet propaganda machine spitting out strange stuff?

Now take this into consideration, I am a gun owning soldier, and a believer in the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, and our fair Republic, has engaged in a propaganda war of our own when it comes to the "Kosovo Conflict" as it is "called" by our popular media, but it was more limited then you suggest.  Don’t listen to the ramblings of a dying horse who has no conventional military power to speak of, only nuclear.

I do believe there are conspiracies, possibly the one of JFK, and I guarantee you they will not take away the average American’s right to own a firearm.

I do applaud the fact that you do try to bring both sides of the story, and I suggest you keep digging for the different stories. But let me tell you… as a pawn I have seen nothing yet,

I can also tell you the pictures of all those "accurate weapons" weren’t performing as advertised.  I have seen that with my own eyes... But please don’t give into the whim of any nutball who comes up with a "theory," ‘cause 78% of them are crap, just like the (Russian ) article.... The article shows a bit more paranoia then even I have... Outa here.”

Christopher Spratley, KFOR, Kosovo, Serbia

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TiM Ed.: We replied to Mr. Spratley as follows:

“Thanks for your feedback. As for "propaganda," American people have been subjected to so much of the NATO and Pentagon “crap” (to paraphrase our reader), that all TiM tries to do re. Kosovo is to provide some semblance of a balanced reporting (the other side of the coin, as you also noted).  Then our readers, whom we presume to be well informed and intelligent, can decide for themselves whom and what to believe.”

And now, a couple of additional comments about the above letter unrelated to the NATO losses… You’ve seen our recent TiM Bulletin, “Dangerous Nuclear Saber-Rattling” (Apr 30, 2000).  So when this writer saw a member of our armed forced declare cockily and arrogantly, “don’t listen to the ramblings of a dying horse who has no conventional military power to speak of, only nuclear,” he had chills in his spine.  For, “only he who knows little is confident of everything.”  And if that’s what Clinton’s Evil Empire has brainwashed our soldiers into believing, then we are in deeper trouble than even this writer had thought.  So check out your nearest nuclear shelter.

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Australia - Portuguese Soldiers Never Died in Action  Either, Only in “Accidents”

AUSTRALIA (via, May 5 - We received the following feedback from Fernando (whose last name is known to TiM), a Portuguese-born Australian.  He offered his comment in response to the following paragraph from the above TiM Bulletin:

“The only question that remains unanswered, however, is how did the Clinton administration manage to keep so many grieving American and other NATO families silent about the losses of their loved ones? Or more pointedly, did it bribe them (pay them off) or intimidate them with threats or worse?” 

And now, here’s Fernando’s letter:

“I am an Australian born in Portugal, but have lived most of my life in Angola (Africa) at a time that country was a Portuguese colony. Well, there was a war between the Portuguese and the Angolan freedom fighters (in the 1970s).  When a Portuguese soldier died in action, his family were informed that he had had an accident!  Usually a car accident or something similar... They never died in combat :-). Only at the end of the war, many families knew that their loved ones were in fact killed in action.

So I reckon that the same may be happening with the American soldiers. Their families are probably being informed that their sons, brothers or husbands had unfortunate accidents. And those families don't usually know each other, and therefore can't compare notes. It's not difficult to tell lies to 400 families throughout a country with 260 million people. Most of those families don't know about the existence of each other and therefore the lies can stand.”

Fernando, Australia (via Angola, Portugal)

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U.S. (state unknown) - Unreported U.S. Deaths in Somalia, Other “Accidents”

CINCINNATI, May 6 - In response to the above TiM Bulletin on NATO losses, a TiM reader has sent us the following clip from an Apr. 10 FreeRepublic forum.  The letter (edited only for grammar and punctuation) was attributed to a screen name “Rodyna.”  It was obviously written from someone in the U.S. armed forces:

“Try this… A friend of mine's husband was an E6 in Delta Force.  He was killed in Somalia. Officially, he was never there and died of an accident. A captain I was friends with, was a Lieutenant in Somalia, and he told me about the number of bodies going out... A lot more then 18 (the official count).

My supply sergeant was a former Special Forces member, he told me they lost almost 50 people from Special Forces in Panama. The official death toll was 15.

A fraternity brother of mine, who was an officer in the SEALs, died in Central America, officially from a training accident. His family hired a private investigator and found out his chopper had been shot down.

Please, if you think our government doesn't control what you see and hear, you are a fool.”

Rodyna (state unknown), posted on 04/10/2000 17:36:40 PDT

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TiM Ed.: We, Americans have zero tolerance for losses in overseas expeditions of our neo-colonial governments (yes, George Bush’s, not only Bill Clinton’s).  That’s good.  And that’s bad.

It’s good, because most decent people in our country don’t want to see our armed forces sacrificed in some distant country while occupying it on behalf of the New World Order, instead of defending America - the job they have sworn to do. 

It’s bad, because so many of our fellow-citizens have become so gullible through decades of brainwashing and dumbing-down of America.  If such Americans don’t see something on TV, it didn’t happen.  Conversely, if they do see it on their screens, the “Wag the Dog”-type scenarios notwithstanding, they gulp up the government’s lies and deceptions as if they were the Gospel truth.

Which makes it so easy for our Washington leaders and the establishment media to fool the public.  When the TV images of angry Somalies’ dragging the bodies of dead American soldiers in October 1993 flashed across America’s TV screens, Clinton hurriedly ordered our troops out of that country. 

But did Clinton stop sending our troops into harm’s way?  No, Sir.  The two Clinton administrations continued, and even accelerated the (Bush’s) neo-colonial foreign policy on behalf of the “death merchants” and other multinational corporations which profit from “perpetual wars for perpetual commerce.”  It’s just that they never allowed any American casualties to be either reported or shown on our TV screens.

If you can’t see them, they didn’t happen.  Right.  If you’re one of the dumbed-down morons of the New World Order.  For, only a moron would have believed Bill Clinton when he declared in his “victory speech” on June 10, 1999 that NATO had suffered “no combat casualties” in its war with Serbia.  Here’s what we wrote that day:

“…In a televised speech which contained all the cliches of the "lie and deny" PR spinners, Clinton claimed that NATO had suffered no (!) combat casualties during the 79-day campaign. Wonder if even his Buddy (Clinton's dog) would lap up such BS without throwing up?”  

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Texas - It's Time Americans United to Bring Back Our Country May 7, 2000

TEXAS, May 7 - We received the following comment from Colette Mauboussin of Texas:

"I have read all of your articles that come to my e-mail and I thank you for them. There is an abundance of unconstitutional actions in the US by Clinton, his Administration and others. The American People MUST realize that THEY ALONE CAN bring back this country to its greatness by first, READING AND MEMORIZING our CONSTITUTION and BILL OF RIGHTS, which in themselves are all the TRUTH necessary to recognize the corruption not only in Washington, but in the Media which should be boycotted by the people instead of used as a 'brainwashing' tool. 

The unfortunate ignorance of our history as it truly developed by the majority of the American people is evident and serves Clinton and all of his corrupted followers well indeed! It is time that 'We the People' unite and not only demand our 'rights' as Americans, but express them by our actions. It is also time to recognize that the most lethal weapon this country now has is Clinton himself."

Colette Mauboussin, Texas

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Virginia - All Those "Training Accidents" Last Spring" May 8, 2000

VIRGINIA, May 8 - We received the following comment from a TiM reader in Virginia who writes under the pseudonym "Cossack."  The reader's real identity is known to TiM:

"In regard to "Portuguese Soldiers Never Died in Action Either, Only in Accidents ", I have long tried to point out to people to that there was an inordinate number of "training accidents" last spring. Also during the gang rape of Yugoslavia, I noted that the news media did report a number of 'emergency landings' due to 'mechanical problem' (yeah, like massive holes blown in the plane). Of course, Jamie Shea (he of the 'cute' accent) always insisted that these reports of 'emergency landings' (many of which were, at best, controlled crash landings; most of those planes never flew again) had nothing whatsoever to do with Yugoslavian PVO (anti-aircraft) action (um huh, dem planes dey just fall down go boom, all by themselves).

If, as Shea, Rubin, Halfbright, Cohen, et. al. contend, all these planes 'inexplicably' developed such serious mechanical problems (many reports of the forced landings noted the plane trailing heavy smoke as it burrowed in), then, what does this say about the capability of our military? Do they mean to say that literally dozens of planes (and here we are talking about dozens of frontline, top-of-the-line aircraft, not National Guard hand-me-downs) just up and cease functioning of their own accord? One would imagine that that, in and of itself, should occasion a Congressional investigation.

Again, if people bother to go back and re-read the news reports of the time (both mainline media and non-NATO media in other countries), the contentions above prove out. Now, the interesting thing is to see how long it takes to percolate through the American consciousness that we have been fooled again. 

As I pointed out to many, the US military can create the necessary number of 'training accidents' to cover the deaths of those servicepeople who must be accounted for (those with inquisitive family members, friends, etc.). For better or worse, many presently in our mercenary military are people who have few, if any, family or friends who would not be swayed by excuses of 'national security' or the crossing of the palm, with 30 pieces of silver to remain mum about the death of the serviceperson."

Cossack, Virginia

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New York - Decorated U.S. Veteran, Now Lawyer, on "Stealth" Bodies May 9, 2000

NEW YORK, May 8 - We received the following comment from John. D. Collins of Long Island, NY.  The preceding is a pen name for the author, a decorated U.S. veteran, now a practicing lawyer, whose real identity is known to TiM.  The following is a compilation of this TiM reader's observations about the possible cover-up of the Pentagon "body snatchers:"

"The year before the Bosnian war, I noticed increased recruiting activity at the criminal courthouses (I'm a lawyer) ,, The US Army does scour holding cells... But US Marine recruiters rarely go for jail bait, as they were doing that year... If in this remote outclave they were trawling the cells, the activity in New York City must have been great.

There was also increased helicopter activity at the local airport, in the evenings, around dusk. The C150s I saw land at the airport landed at dusk in March/April (1999), right before the changeover from standard time. Do not have exact dates. I was not keeping a 'war diary.'

The C150s were a dusty gray-blue painted and blended into the spring sky, though they passed less than 25 feet above the expressway they were barely noticeable except to someone familiar with them. They glided in silently. Engines were not running during the approach.

At the time, I estimated the US loses based upon observable local recruiting activity at 1,000 per week.  These are casualties; it does not mean only deaths, but also includes wounded missing and desertions.

Military funerals are a general way to gauge casualties. No military funerals were advertised as they had been in all prior wars. But, of course, military funerals could not be acknowledged. 

Officially, the government claimed there were no loses at all. That, of course,  is preposterous. But this (Kosovo) war is billed as 'the clean war'."

John D. Collins, New York

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South Carolina - Love Your Site and Your Stand for Truth and Freedom in America! May 9, 2000

SOUTH CAROLINA, May 9 - We received the following comment from Melissa Seaman of South Carolina:

"I love your site and your stand for truth and freedom in America! 'Keep and Bear Arms' and 'Pro America Grassroots Network' have sponsored a petition to restore our Constitution and Bill of Rights. I was wondering if you would consider helping us promote it?

The petition can be found at: http://www.i-charity.net/sw.cgi/ptn/16 .  It is sponsored by http://keepandbeararms.org and http://fi9.com/guncontrol . Any help would be greatly appreciated!"

Melissa Seaman, South Carolina

Some reactions to... "U.S. Air Force's Readiness at 15-Year Low" (TiM GW Bulletin 2000/5-1, May 4, 2000)

Canada - USAF Paying $5K for New Recruits to Sign Up May 9, 2000

PHOENIX, May 9 - We received the following reaction to a paragraph from our subject Bulletin from Bob Petrovich, a TiM reader in Canada :

TiM Bulletin: "The U.S. Air Force readiness to fight a war slumped in recent months to its lowest level in 15 years... Only 65 percent of the force's combat units were considered operating at the military's best levels of readiness in December and January, the official said on condition of anonymity. That means roughly 115 of its 329 combat units were not fully capable of performing their mission."

TiM Reader:  Hi, Bob, The USAF is paying $5K bonus for new recruits to sign. :-)

Bob Petrovich, Canada

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TiM Ed.: No wonder that the future "heroes of the New World Order" now have to be bribed into joining an air force that has done an excellent good job of murdering innocent Serb civilians, while leaving the Yugoslav Army practically intact (see the above stories as well as the NATO Peace Farce section at our Web site for details).

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Some reactions to... "FreeRepublic's Truth Censorship" (TiM GW Bulletin 2000/5-1, May 4, 2000)

CINCINNATI, May 6 - Our subject piece seems to have sparked quite a passionate debate on the issue of free speech and censorship at the FreeRepublic (FR) forum in the last two days.  Those who defended Jim Robinson’s decision to ban some Serb FR members from posting, cited his claim that the allegedly offending material which he had removed from FR called for the death of U.S. serviceman.  Here’s on such an example of a comment we received from Daniel McAdams of Chicago:

Illinois - Calling for Death of U.S. Servicemen?

“I am a regular at Free Republic and I really must say you are way out of line here. I understand your frustration, but the discussion of Nato's illegal war on Yugoslavia on FreeRepublic has been free and unrestrained. The posters you write of were banned when they began posting material that called for the death of US servicemen. As a patriotic American I am sure you can make the distinction between the illegal actions of our government and the lives of these poor servicemen who are called to give their blood as the foot soldiers of Clinton's new world order.” […]

Daniel McAdams, Illinois

(Mr. McAdams has occasionally contributed his comments to TiM when he was based in Budapest, Hungary.  If interested, you can search our Web site using his name as keyword).

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TiM Ed.: To which the TiM editor replied as follows:

I didn't know that (re. calling for the death of the U.S. servicemen).  I agree with you on the above if that's what happened.  Will ask our source to send me the offending messages and then make my own judgment about it. Thanks, Daniel.

FYI - have gotten quite a few other messages from TiM readers who were complaining about being banned by Jim Robinson - none Serbs, on issues other than Kosovo.”

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Belgrade - Not True!  Prove It! (Banned Serb Member of the FreeRepublic)

CHICAGO, May 5 - So while traveling on Friday from London to Cincinnati, via Chicago, the TiM editor continued his research into the FR censorship matter, reading and answering various e-mails at the airports, and perusing numerous (very long!) FR posts on this subject that some TiM readers had sent us.  

Furthermore, we asked our original Belgrade source, who used to post to the FR under the screen name “LopuZa” before he and others were banned, to answer the charges that were being levied against him.  LopuZa vehemently denied that he had ever called for the death of the U.S. correspondence, and enclosed reams of messages (see excerpts below) that he and others have exchanged with Jim Robinson in support of his position. 

Indeed, we could not see any such a statement, although we did encounter numerous instances in which Robinson ALLEGED that LopuZa had done it.  Here’s a copy of one of Lopuza’s messages to TiM which summed up his position:

“I strongly believe, more now then before this incident, that Jim Robinson made a hasty mistake. He knew that I did not do any of those things he accused me off, that was just a in his mind a justifiable and convenient excuse to ban me. That is why he used the "well LopuZa wished our military boys to get killed" which I hope you seen from my post that is not the case at all. 

He is trying to deliberately avoid the censorship issue, or try to blame me for his action. All my comments in all my posts at Free Republic were done with dignity and class, without attacking any of the members of FR. But the some of the members of FR deliberately attacked me personally without any evidence provided by their cult leader, JR to prove his accusation that he made about me, they excepted them as facts and took to a campaign of  "attacking the messenger instead of the message". I know the reason they did not attack the message is that it requires skill to prove that the story I posted and translated is false, it requires research.

I see FR as a cult following, where there are a lot of veterans who do not like to hear American forces losing any personnel or equipment, even if it is true. I also notice that there are a lot of active military personnel posting their propaganda, which I guess is ok by JR. I think the original idea of Free Republic was a noble cause but as it progressed this idea was muted and lost.”

LopuZa, Belgrade, Serbia

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TiM Ed.: Although the TiM editor has never even signed on to FR, nor had any other firsthand experiences with FR until now, he had also received similar messages from some of the FR readers.  Those who supported Robinson’s decision to ban LopuZa and others defended the PERSON (Robinson), taking his word for his claims, without bothering to look for the evidence. 

Maryland - You Should Apologize to Robinson at FR

MARYLAND, May 5 - Here’s an excerpt from one such a message: 

“The incident in question was thoroughly hashed out on the FreeRepublic forum. Jim Robinson Emailed the poster and asked him/her not to post unverifiable "facts" on the site. Jim also noted that the poster had written that "the U.S. soldiers should all be killed" or some such. Jim was as always extremely lenient with the poster, but the asshole persisted, and Jim booted him. IMHO rightfully so considering that Jim pays for the bandwidth with funds sent to do so, and his own money to boot. Jim allowed the poster to discuss the adventure on his site, will you all render the same to differing opinions. I await your doing so and issuing an apology to Jim Robinson at Free Republic any time. TRUTH??? Peace and love,

George Williams, Maryland

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To which the TiM editor replied:

“An apology for reporting the truth?  That might be a new one, even in today's perverted NWO world.

Thanks for your feedback, though, George.  Will consider it for publication of an update to this story. 

Personally, I have no idea who Jim Robinson is.  Nor do we care.  All we did was publish excerpts from the correspondence about him from one of our readers.  We couldn't care less what he does or doesn't do.  But he seems he has angered a lot of people, based on the feedback we are getting from the current and former FR readers.”

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TiM Ed.: Mr. Williams message actually proves the earlier point that LopuZa had made.  It takes the FR’s Robinson at his word without any evidence whatsoever.  And it attacks the person - the messenger of unpleasant news or opinions.  Mr. Williams even goes on to call the banished FR member an “asshole,” a clear violation of one of the FR posting rules (no personal attacks of vulgarities), as we have been told by the members. 

Never mind that the Supreme Court ruled years ago, there is no such thing as a false opinion, only false facts.  “Don’t bother me with facts, my mind’s made up,” Mr. Williams’ message seems to be saying.  Such an attitude also reminded the TiM editor of a famous trial lawyer who finished his summation before the jury with the following remark: “And those, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, were the opinions upon which I based my facts.: J 

Interestingly, FR’s Robinson virtually admitted his culpability when, after the publication of the subject TiM article, he put back on-line yesterday the supposedly offending messages from LopuZa and others that he had removed earlier (see http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a38f25c3e0c32.htm).

That’s a good first step toward restoring our and the FR members’ faith that the Web sites, such as the FR, practice rather than abuse the First Amendment.  And toward reaffirming the FR’s commitment to making its name “FreeRepublic” live up to its billing. 

Once Robinson, by all accounts a great patriot and a Navy veteran, restores all of the former FR posters he had banned because he didn’t like their opinions, he will have done what decent, God-fearing people do when they are in the wrong - repent and make up.  And we will forget all about the incident.  Except to note that healthy debates, such as this one, only serve to STRENGTHEN America’s freedom of speech and our love of truth and liberty.

May God give Robinson wisdom, strength and courage to do the right thing sooner, rather than later. 

Cincinnati - Some Other Examples of FR Censorship

MARYLAND, May 6 - Here are excerpts from some other examples of the FR censorship that we have received from the aggrieved TiM correspondents:

“Bob - Thought you'd like to see this. (You may want to get a copy of your article's thread before it disappears.)

Free Republic: Color Inside the Lines, Please!

May 3, 2000--Free Republic [ http://www.freerepublic.com ] claims to be an "online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web. We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption ..."

Free Republic boasts its dedication to the principles embodied in the Bill of Rights, most prominently the First Amendment and the right to free speech; it presents itself as an Internet alternative to the controlled media.

But Free Republic is merely FAKE Internet opposition to the controlled media.    Evidence: Free Republic revoked my posting privileges, just hours after I posted an expose of another "fake opposition" Internet journalist-Matt Drudge.

On May 2, I sent out an article entitled "Do You Take Matt Drudge Seriously?" to my personal mailing list.  Shortly after 12 noon, I posted it to Free Republic.  It attracted a lot of attention, and hundreds of people read it shortly after I put it up.

Someone on my mailing list who received the article like it, so he posted it on Free Republic, too, not realizing I had already done so.

Sometime in the late afternoon, after 932 people had read  my original post, it was removed from the Free Republic board.  The second posting was also removed, after 132 people had read it.  Several hours later, the article was reposted a third time.  This time the article received 111 hits before it was removed.  All in all, 1,273 people saw the article.

I wrote to the man in charge of Free Republic, Jim Robinson ("JimRob"), to ask him why the article had been taken down.  His response was: "Stay off my website."  

I have included Jim Robinson's e-mail to me below, with full headers.

Should you read/contribute to Free Republic, "JimRob," has a cute name for you: You are a "FReeper." If you go to http://www.freerepublic.com/about.htm you will see a list of prominent "FReepers." One of those luminary Freepers is none other than--MATT DRUDGE.  That's right--Drudge is one of theirs.

No doubt about it, the molders of public opinion do not want citizen journalists who speak truth to be heard.  The Usenet newsgroups are potentially wonderful forums for these independent researchers and writers.  So in order silence news and debate, spooks troll the Usenet newsgroups, savaging posters and making Usenet unsafe for all but the most hearty.  We can think of these spooks as sharks trolling the open seas.

Holding tanks are then created for those who wish to get away from the sharks.  Let us call these tanks holding tanks for guppies.  Free Republic is one of these guppy holding tanks.  Your posts are accepted there as long as they don't step on *really* important toes, or contain *too* much truth. Truth that cuts too deep is not good for guppies ...

Specialty mail lists or listservers are also created for feeding guppies and providing a "safe environment" (read:  rubber room).  Moderators can quickly isolate trouble makers and kick them off, just as "JimRob" of Free Republic kicked me off.

Molders of pubic opinion want people who are new to the Internet diverted from the Usenet newsgroups quickly.  They want the newbies relegated to their proper holding tanks where they can be fed approved food pellets.  It won't do to have the guppies exposed to dangerous ideas.  The controlled environment must be maintained at all costs.

How can we handle this?  Deluge the guppy rubber rooms with the hard truth, or bypass them completely?  Use the Usenet newsgroups more and more?  Don't like those strategies?  Then implement your own!

Bottom line:  To hell with the torpedoes, full steam ahead!”

Carol A. Valentine, Virginia

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  “I too was censored at the "Free Republic".  I attempted to post an article from The_Spotlight (http://www.Spotlight.org).  The article documented the financial support Senator John McCain receives from from organized-crime.  The article was not at all racist or anti-Semitic.  Nevertheless, certain individuals complained and made extremely derogatory remarks.  The post was quickly then quickly deleted. 

When I asked for an explanation, I learned that ALL POSTS that use The_Spotlight or certain other publications on an unspecified  "banned books list" as a source are routinely deleted, regardless of the content of the message. 

I submitted another message in which I attempted to argue quite rationally against such blanket censorship.  That message too, which had no source other than myself, was also quickly deleted.  At this point, as a matter of principle, I withdrew from the forum.

Free Republic is still a useful resource, inasmuch as it archives many articles that are critical of the NWO / NATO War System.  However, it is hardly justified in calling itself Free.  "Censored Republic" would be more accurate.” 

Of course Robinson, who owns the site, is free to do whatever he chooses. His censorship policy, however, has caused me to lose my respect for him and his methods.”

Charlie Obler

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“It has been some time since I have written, and that is to my shame.  I just read a post on the FreeRepublic website, and I responded to that post.  I would like for you to read the now lengthy page at this location: http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3912dc184e01.htm

and my reply to the person who posted at: http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3912dc184e01.htm#74

I read extensively there, and have posted much of what you have written from day one regarding the US attack on Kosovo.

By and large, I would estimate that 95 percent of those who frequent the site have been pro-Serbian and ashamed of our government - a tiny percentage otherwise.  Unfortunately there have been what I would call "bad" language from a few on both sides - but the people who had their posting privileges revoked were hoping that "Americans [in Kosovo] would all be killed" - among other similar statements.”

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TiM Ed.: As you saw from our earlier research, the preceding was a false FR allegation, not a fact.

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“Jim keeps as tight a rein on what is posted as possible, but some pretty nasty stuff does get out.  I've seen him pull an entire post because of one nasty entry.  He's a good Christian man that values truth and justice as much as you do.  Hey, he's not perfect and he has made mistakes - just like all of us.

I invite your comments, and look forward to what you may have to say about what I posted there a few moments ago.

God bless you Bob! Keep up the battle - truth does trump the forces of evil!”

Ron Culver

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“This site (FreeRepublic) tends to be quirky and unpredictable.  Sometimes it's great, other times it's not.  Recently the quality has been poor, especially with international reporting.

I do know that if any Internet site posed a real threat to the establishment, it would be shut down quickly, as the Internet has its roots in the U.S. defense business. Therefore, good quality sites tend to walk a fine line between being truthful and nonexistent.”

Steve Upton, Washington (state)

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Virginia - FreeRepublic Bans Top Foster Death Researcher May 9, 2000

PHOENIX, May 9 - We received the following comment from Carol A. Valentine, president, Public Action, Inc., http://www.Public-Action.com:

"May 7--Free Republic [ http://www.freerepublic.com ] is the web-based "conservative" news forum that presents itself as an Internet alternative to the controlled media. It boasts that it is "working to ... root out political fraud and corruption ..."

What could be more corrupt than the (apparent) murder of a deputy White House counsel--the man who was the personal attorney of the President of United States--and the cover-up of his (apparent) murder by the FBI and the news media?

Hugh Turley <Turley@acninc.net> has done groundbreaking research on the Vince Foster death and is co-author of "Failure Of The Public Trust." http://www.fbicover-up.com . Just last week, while Turley was leveling charges that certain "conservative" journalists were helping to cover up the apparent Foster murder, Free Republic--without explanation-- revoked his posting privileges.

Visit Free Republic and look at its posting rules. There are three basic prohibitions 1) No profanity, 2) No personal attacks, 3) No racist/violence posts. Turley broke none of these rules. Not only were Turley's posting privileges canceled, but his recent articles and attached comment threads have been completely wiped out. Turley's banishment from Free Republic followed this sequence of events:

* April 24 Turley posted comments to "Elian et. al. DO NOT ANSWER SURVEY QUESTIONS" on Free Republic. Turley publicly called Christopher Ruddy's expose efforts a layer of the Foster cover-up, and challenged Ruddy to answer specific charges. There was no response from Ruddy or NewsMax.com.

* April 28 Turley posted "I Got A letter from Joe Farah," in which Turley revealed Farah published a misleading book on the Foster death, written by Christopher Ruddy.

* April 28 Turley posted "Are NewsMax, Drudge, & WorldNetDaily fake?" on Free Republic. Turley invited comments to his question.

* May 1 Turley posted "Why do we trust conservative journalists?" Turley suggested that conservative journalists such as the Washington Times, NewsMax, Drudge, and WorldNetDaily were in bed with the mainstream media.

* May 2. Turley posted "Do You Take Matt Drudge Seriously" by Carol Valentine of Public Action, Inc. Valentine charged that Drudge poses no threat to those who run the country. The posting was removed without explanation.

* May 2. Turley posted "Would You Trust Matt Drudge?" This posting was a renamed version of the earlier Valentine posting that had been removed (above). This posting was also removed without explanation.

* May 2. Turley tried to post comments on his May 1 posting, "Why do we trust conservative journalists," but was greeted with a notice that he had "insufficient privileges" to do so.

* May 2. Turley posted "Freepers ARE NOT ALLOWED to read this," in which he told Free Republic readers about his posting restrictions.

"...Others can criticize and attack me but I cannot respond. I never use profanity, personal attacks or racist or violent posts. My words and thoughts are considered too dangerous for Free Republic," he wrote.

* The next time Turley tried to post he found his posting privileges had been entirely revoked.

According to Turley, he received no explanation at any time for the actions taken by Free Republic. (Public Action requested an interview with Free Republic's owner and operator, Jim Robinson ("JimRob"), <jimrob@psnw.com>, but Robinson declined to be interviewed.)

Free Republic's action sends a signal that Hugh Turley was banished BECAUSE he was exposing "conservative" and Internet journalists who pose as muckrakers but who are actually helping to cover up the corruption. It implies that Free Republic, in banishing Turley, moved to protect these fake muckrakers from exposure.

"Everyone who posted and participated on these threads was a victim of Jim Robinson's censorship. And every member of Free Republic was denied the privilege of reading those posts," Turley told Public Action.

Turley began to research Vince Foster's death in the summer of 1994. He was introduced to Chris Ruddy and Hugh Sprunt early in 1995 and shared his research with them. "By 1996 I was helping Patrick Knowlton and his attorney John Clarke AGAINST the advice of Christopher Ruddy. Ruddy told me not to trust Clarke and that I should avoid Knowlton and Clarke for my safety," he said. The US Court of Appeals ordered that Knowlton's 20-page addendum be included in the Starr report. These 20 pages of evidence included Turley's research.

"In 1999 the US Court of Appeals unsealed a 511-page court document that proves the FBI and Office of Independent Counsel covered-up the apparent murder of Vincent Foster," said Turley. "This document has been bound as a book entitled 'Failure of the Public Trust.'"

"I co-authored this document with Patrick Knowlton and John Clarke and it is the most comprehensive work ever published on Foster's death with 908 footnotes to a 648-page companion volume of exhibits of official documents."

Hugh Turley is no lightweight. He is a player on the national stage. And Free Republic has banished him and the truth he speaks. If Free Republic's real agenda were rooting out political fraud and corruption in high places, there is no way to explain the treatment accorded Hugh Turley." 

Carol A. Valentine, Virginia

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Belgrade - Original “Offending” FR Post

CINCINNATI, May 6 - Here’s the text of the original post by LopuZa which the FR owner found so offensive that he had reportedly removed it, along with LopuZa and some other Serbs from the FR forum:

“FreeRepublic.com "A Conservative News Forum"

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Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

“North Atlantic Alliance loses in an air blitzkrieg on Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (FRY)

     Foreign Affairs Front Page Free Republic Keywords: KOSOVO, SERBIA, YUGOSLAVIA, UN, NATO, US, UK, FRANCE, GERMANY      Source: Svedok (Witness)      Published: April 2000 Author: Sredoje Simic (Translated by LopuZa)      Posted on 04/10/2000 15:57:02 PDT by LopuZa

Year latter, after vandalizing aggression on our country finally we are learning facts of losses by NATO armada which Brussels is persistently hiding

Yugoslavian Army shot down 61 combat aircraft,  30 pilot-less aircraft (UAV's), seven Helicopters and 258 "Tomahawks"

Written by: Sredoje Simic

 All time during NATO aggression on our country, General Wesley K. Clark, Javier Solana and their cohorts, especially Brussels "megaphone" Jamie Patrick Shea, vehemently tried to convince (their) public that the losses of North Atlantic Alliance in an air blitzkrieg on Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (FRY) is symbolic. That they would get support (and money) for continued war, persistently they lied. Now they are silent! Not even a year after aggression, 764 million inhabitants of NATO members were, not given the final account of the three-month long war. Officials in Brussels (and Pentagon) are hiding facts on Alliances loses "like the snake its feet".

Javier Solana is gone, and new general Secretary of NATO, George Robertson, is not brave enough to tell the truth. Because, he would have to confess that powerful western military machinery, here broke its teeth, and not the Balkan walnut "for only three days bombing".

 No, Russian intelligence "pulled the foot" under Clark and Robertson. Agency ITAR-TASS announced on March 25 this year, relying on the head of Russian intelligence administrating headquarters, that NATO for the time of the aggression on Yugoslavia lost three stealth F-117A airplanes, about 40 military apparatuses and more then thousand cruse missiles! (NATO has admitted to a loss of just one F117A in Budjenovci, and fighter-bomber F-16, April 2, by the villages of Nakucani, under Cera).

Even though Russian facts do not agree with the "account" of Yugoslavian army, and they bare witness that the Alliance in the campaign on our country, by military standards, suffered unacceptably huge loses.  Sources "Svedoka" in VJ Army headquarters assert that our missile defenses and antiaircraft for 78 days of aggression, knocked down 61 fighter airplanes (of damaged apparatuses there is no facts), 30 pilot-less aircraft (UAV's), seven helicopters with crews, and 238 cruise missiles.

While only one corpus of RV and PVO has most successfully hit 38 airplanes, two helicopters, nine pilot-less aircraft (UAV's), and 45 "Tomahawks".  On top of the list downed airplanes is American pride, phantom "night-hawk" fighter plane bomber F-117A which cots 45 million dollars. Missile operators of the 3rd division 250th brigade PVO, grounded it with missiles "neva" March 28, with the pilot captain Ken "Wiz" Dvelle in plowed field in the village Budjenovci. 

Our RV and PVO have hit at least two "invisible hawk" (one was knocked down by a MiG-29 fighter). French newspaper "Parisian" announced that March 30 Reuters photograph of the damaged airplane F-117A, which was guarded by American Marines. Photographs were filmed between Bijeljine and Tuzla! Third, heavily damaged "hawk", landed on April 1st on the airport "Pleso" in Zagreb.

 Date to be remembered (and history) remains May 20, year 1999. In Spacvansk forest in Croatia, that day crashed American strategic bomber B-2A, which was named "Spirit of Missouri". VJ has come to this information by following radio traffic in the air, and this was verified by the Russian intelligence. Our PVO hit the "Spirit of Missouri" over Surcin, at a height of 5000 meters. This airplane was in the group of two more airplanes, and was returning from bombing hospital complex in Dedinje (this airplane March 7, destroyed Chinese embassy in Belgrade).  Airplane B-2A "Spirit" (Duh) is the best strategic stealth-bomber and portrays pride American air force.

First sample in series B-2A was handed over to the 509th bomber-wing in the Whitman air force base December 17, year 1993; exactly 90 years after the first flight by a Wright brothers airplane. Was given the name "Spirit of Missouri", and every new B-2A is a spirit of one of American states in the federation (airplane B-2A has two crew members, weights 181 tons and can carry 34,000 (kg) kilograms bombs and missiles). 

Secret, carefulness of the renowned "stealth" technology was burst March 28, like a soap bubble, and in Brussels and USA they were recovering from the "hawk from Srem". Then the "Invisible" airplanes joined "Phantoms", "Tornado's", A-10A (tank hunter), "Mirages", rescue helicopters, "Apache", pilot-less aircraft (UAV's)…

NATO airplanes begin to fall about Serbia and Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Bosnia, Croatia, Adriatic Sea… like "ripe pear's" (Our source tells us that 17 more locations all over rugged mountains picks throughout FRJ on which remains of damaged airplanes were found, and locations which still have to be investigated).  It was demonstrated exactly as military analysts were saying even in the USA, that Yugoslavia has respectful and powerful, and exceptionally good-trained anti-aircraft defense.

During 78 days of aggression our PVO has, even thought it does not poses contemporary missile systems, NATO airplanes often forced to flee, and their generals left confused. Norwegian pilots, lets say they went home very early, Spaniards and Italian were asking for time-out "because of fatigue", and French were often "not feeling good". It was also happening from fear where the pilots General Clark were ejecting from their planes as soon as they sensed "electric eyes" of the defenders of our skies.  Jamie Shea and company helped by (their) media, that all of this is hidden from the public. Without success! Fast, they were denied (and) on the "domestic terrain".  

Institution for defense and foreign politics of USA was first to switch on "alarm". Still, May 9th announced that NATO in the "collision" with VJ "already lost 36 airplanes, eight helicopters, and six pilot-less aircraft (UAV's)". Then it was said that one imprisoned black, pilot fighter-bomber F-15, one (and maybe two) pilots from a German "Tornado", and during the first week of aggression, not far from Podgorice one fighter airplane from the USA was shot down. Rescue helicopter "picked up" the pilot, but was "quickly shot down". Announcing himself Gregory Coply, president of The International Strategic Studies Association in Washington on May 22, pointed to significant losses by NATO "in personnel and technology".

In the first two months aggression Alliance has, warned Coply, lost 70 airplanes and more then 50 soldiers, and among them was one woman, "American pilot". Coply has said that he has information from "highest posts in Brussels" that VJ up to April 20th downed 38 airplanes, six helicopters, seven pilot-less aircraft (UAV's) and number of cruise missiles. In Brussels and Pentagon they were in the, meanwhile, announcing with all bells on alarm. Number of airplanes and pilots who lifted off, but never returned, meanwhile was increasing. Their faiths have ended on the desk of General Clark, in a file on which it was written "strictly confidential". All until today!

Chirac is seeking two pilots

French president Jacques Chirac is the first western official that has acknowledged disappearance of pilots during the time of the bombing of Yugoslavia. This he has done on March 23 of this year in one French base, and he gave honor for the two of his own pilots that did not survive operation "Merciful Angel" (presumed that they fell in the lake Skadar).

NATO lost 300 soldiers

According to information assessable so far, assessment during the aggression on FRY, NATO lost at least 300 soldiers. Our sources affirm, meanwhile, that we have no prisoners! Hit airplanes were, namely, most often falling in one of the neighboring countries or in Adriatic Sea, and ones that were "landing" by us were succeeding in getting picked up by the NATO rescue helicopters.  Speculating, meanwhile, that our government delivered bodies of the pilots that have been killed on the occasion of the downing of the helicopter. There is a possibility that some of the shot down pilots have been lost on one of our inaccessible mountains.

NATO's mortuary in Thessaloniki

Athens "Atinaikis" has written, middle of April year 1999, of at least 88 perished NATO soldiers. Greek journal has announced that on Skopje Black Forest on April 9 two helicopters were shot down, and that from Skopje airport "Petrovac" and across the border at Bogorodica crossing in Thessaloniki the bodies of 40 NATO soldiers were transported. Thus the secret role 424 American military hospital in Thessaloniki and Britains base "Akrotitija" on Cyprus, where on "daily bases tin coffins were arriving".

Peasants in the village of Osilci, on the road Krusevo-Demir Husar (Macedonia) found two dead char bodies of American pilots hanging from a tree. On Zlatibor March 27, downed helicopter with commandos, and two days later on Majevici fell helicopter with 12 crewmembers. Rescue helicopter with two pilots and 12 commandos was downed on March 28 between Bijeljine and Tuzla. Two days latter ITAR-TASS announced that the same fate has overcame two more helicopters.  About 200 kilometers (km) form Belgrade, in the region of Tare, according to Russian sources that a fighter and two rescue helicopters with 58 crewmembers was sot down…

8,200 combat flights by NATO aircraft

During the aggression on Yugoslavia, NATO had 27,000 air-takeoffs, of which more then 8,200 were combat, about 23,000 tons of projectiles were dropped. American's used on the aggression against our country fighter-bombers F-14, F15, F16, "invisible" bombers F-117A and B-2A, attack planes A-10A, bombers B52, supersonic F-1B and airplanes for anti-electronic action EH-GB.  British were using "Tornado" and "Harrier", German used "Tornado" and pilot-less aircraft, and French used "Mirage" (variant C & D), "Jaguars" and aircraft for scrambling of electronic equipment. Remaining members of NATO mainly were bombing us with airplanes G-16, and F-18.

TiM Ed.: --- (end of translation) ---

I think there never will be enough said about the ferocious attack of sovereign Yugoslavia (FRY) by the North Atlantic Alliance (NATO). If one just compares the total population of the alliance verses that of Yugoslavia, that is 764 million people verses 12 million people, yet Yugoslavia withstood the onslaught. If one further analyses the GNP of the alliance verses the GNP of Yugoslavia at the time of the attack that is incredible that the Yugoslavians are still here standing, more proud then ever.

Here is a story a follow-up on the NATO losses by the "Svedok" (Witness) independent online Internet magazine, translated in English by LopuZa.

I wish that the US congress would force the US Navy and Air forces to tell the truth, the same can be said about the rest of the members of the NATO alliance. Then lets see what the truth is or who told the truth and who did not. Below you will find some links to the organizations mentioned in this article, along with notes and other information.

This would be a good time to check and see if the Spirit of Missouri is still in one peace, I don't think that even Americans can produce this plane in time for this air show. So for you people that live near Whitman airforce base, there is a challenging mission (if you get a chance to get close to the plane check the serial number) to make sure they are not using the old switch for the purpose of deceiving. It would be very interesting to see which B-2A show up in the place of Spirit of Missouri?

NOTES & LINKS:

PVO (Protiv Vazdusna Odbrana) - Anti Air Defense. RV (Ratno Vazduhoplovstvo) - Combat Aviation. "Sremskog sokola" - Srem hawk - (Srem- area in Yugoslavia, see any map, Sokol-hawk).

North Atlantic Alliance (NATO)

Map of crash sites of NATO aircraft shot down in Yugoslavia

Aircraft used and lost in Yugoslavia during NATO aggression of 1999.

List of NATO aircraft losses (according the Yugoslav press)

Gregory Copley, The International Strategic Studies Association

The International Strategic Studies Association

Whiteman's Air Show is set for Sept. 9-10. Stay tuned for details.

Serbian Angels

1 Posted on 04/10/2000 15:57:02 PDT by LopuZa (LopuZa@beograd.com)

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Belgrade - Original “Offending” Post

CINCINNATI, May 6 - Finally, here are excerpts from the exchanges between LopuZa and Jim Robinson of FR about the reasons the post had been pulled and the author banished from the FR forum, according to LopuZa:

LopuZa: “One word for you Mr. Robinson, you are a calculated liar and that with out shame you attack me as some Serbian propagandist or a disrupter on this forum, which you know, is clearly not true. I will comment on your drivel, and accusations in the tread below, it's nice to attack a person who can't defend himself, but that is an American trait, might is right against a defenseless and imaginary enemy. It is obvious that you did not see or care to look at all the treads/articles that I have posted. If you did you would have seen that I did not only post on Serb related stories/issues but on a wide subject area that is in agreement with what supposedly Free Republic Forum stands for. You twisted my words to justify your inner hate for the Serbs and any one that would there question your loyalties. Here is an example of your hypocrisy listed below and my response to your delusional drivel of half-truths and contradictions.  Post my answers I dare you, after all men deserve to defend them selves including murderers,

<a href= http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a38ffff037a23.htm  "> Unfair Censorship by Jim Robinson??</a>

>From post #3:

Robinson: "Bit of a controversy going on here folks. Poster, Lapuza, is in support of the Serbian government and has been engaged in posting what appears to me to be anti-American propaganda. Here is the latest example: http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a38f25c3e0c32.htm  "

LopuZa: In the above example there is no clear evidence of anti-American propaganda, you are dreaming of anti-American propaganda. Also in the above "LopuZa is in support of Serbian government", where in the hell in any of the posting did you get that from, liar?

Robinson: "This article claims that there were hundreds of NATO planes and missiles shot down during Clinton's unconstitutional war in Serbia and that NATO is hiding this fact. No doubt they probably are hiding a lot of the details, but this article seems to be propaganda to me. Although I oppose Clinton's war and NATO's illegal actions in Serbia, as an American citizen and a Navy veteran I cannot condone postings of anti-American propaganda on Free Republic. I believe that there is a line to be drawn between valid criticism and out and out treasonous propaganda. And, as you all know, in our registration agreement I have reserved the right to remove any materials posted to FR that I believe, in my sole judgement, to be inappropriate. "

LopuZa: I for one could care less that you are a Navy veteran, that fact has noting to do with the article that I posted or any that I have posted on this site. I translated the above article, it was not written by me, and for your sake I hope it does not turn out to be true. There is no anti-American propaganda in that or any other post that I posted on this site. But now that we know that you have been brainwashed in the Navy that would explain the your attitude and action that you have taken after I posted the article.

Robinson: "I removed Lapuzo's article. Lapuzo then threatened to cause me problems in the forum and in this vein began posting disruptive materials such as this: http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a38f3565f6b6c.htm#164 

I also want to prevent disruptions of this nature, so to stop it before it got out of hand, I pulled Lapuzo's posting privileges. After this action, Lapuzo took his disruption campaign to Yahoo, so I deleted his account there. Then he took it to email. Now another poster has joined in on the "anti-Jim Robinson censorship" campaign and so we have this thread. I at first deleted it too, but have since decided to let it stand so that we can get this fight over with. "

"From my point of view it's really pretty simple. Those who agree with Lapuza that I am a corrupt fraud and fake, and/or who disagree with my right to delete what I deem to be inappropriate posts to my own website and who will therefore call me an "unfair censor" for doing so, might just as well resign their FR membership and sign off now, because I have no intention of ever giving up that right."

The above sounds like this, it's my ball and we will play by my rules, so there! The problem is that while it is your site (domain name "FreeRepublic.com") you are using member's money to sustain this site, thus it is not your ball, it is not only your investment. But the rest of your cult followers do not seem to understand this, I do even though I am not from America. Next time you ask for donations tell them that it's your site and you will decide who can post and who can't, and let see how many people donate to for personal cause. If you think that most people that are posting on FR are posting because of something you are doing, you are wrong. They come to hear different point of view from various outlets and people from other countries closer to events in the news as seen by your so-called Free Press, more like farce press.

"Sorry about the disruption, but this socalled "censorship" subject seems to be cropping up more and more frequently. If the majority of you feel that I am in the wrong by removing what I deem to be inappropriate materials, then I might just as well find out now rather than letting it drag out for weeks or months. It also makes me think that if I am way off base, then maybe I should do something different."

LopuZa: The only disruption here was caused by your meddling into something that you should have kept your nose out of, even if it is your site, so what that its your site. If you stand for the Republic and the constitution then you would not edit or censor regardless of content. First rule of debate is never attack the messenger, instead attack the message. You failed in basic principles of debate and discussion, so how are you suppose to protect or fight for the Republic and conservative values? The reason the so-called subject of censorship is cropping up is that you are a abusing your power, "absolute power corrupts absolutely". Just like your fearless leader Clinton, you have abused it in the past and you are continuously abusing it.

>From post #101:

"Well, if you go back and look at these Serbian propagandists posts you will see where some of them are actually hoping for our American troops to get wiped out. I'm also in opposition to this criminal NATO war, but I'll have to draw the line when people want to post their desires to see our fighting boys killed. It's a bad situation all around, but posting anti-American propaganda or information which could damage our military is not the solution. The real solution is for Congress to impeach Clinton for this clearly unconstitutional and criminal action. And the only way that is gonna happen is if millions of outraged Americans get after them. As it is, we're all wishing so hard to see our guys reelected that we're willing to overlook the fact that they are neglecting their sworn Constitutional duty, and so none of them are seriously worried about losing their jobs. And the beat goes on..."

All I see is you pointing your finger and accusing people that are posting as Serbian propagandists. You have shown no proof of any of your accusations. Where in the hell did you see me post that I was hoping American troops get wiped out even though that they deserve to get wiped out, because they don't belong in Kosovo or any other part of former Yugoslavia. We the Serbs seem to have been good enough to drum up support to oust your president and chief liar but now we are no longer welcome to point Americas falsehoods on this forum, hmm? That's right the real solution is that you should have impeached Clinton, instead you made him more powerful and more willing to brake all the laws of the US constitution as has never been done before.

Why don't you list anti-American propaganda or information, which could damage our military from the articles I posted?

Post #103:

Robinson: "Well, I can sympathize with the fact that your country is occupied, but you're not gonna use my website to wish for my brothers in arms to be killed. That's where I draw the line. If this is your intent you might as well give up your FReeper account now."

LopuZa: They wished that upon them selves by carrying out illegal orders, no one on this site could wish them anything. Wishes don't come true in real life Mr. Robinson wake up and grow up! List the posts where people wished to see your brothers in arms to be killed? Even tough they deserve all they will get for carrying out illegal orders, kind of like nazis during the big one and the only real war America ever fought in. And the one in which a lot of Americans had second thoughts of fighting on the wrong side thus today they are rectifying this mistake of the past. They are aligned with the Nazis of the past and are occupying by war and by economy Europe exactly as Germans wanted to do during WWII. Wake up and look at the facts on the ground in Europe, stop living in a bubble, and untruth. That's right, there you go again drawing some kind of line, invisible line, and then some more threats because someone does not agree with you! Must be that it's my ball stupid and I want to play by my rules, till the sheep wake Post #105:

Robinson: "Well you are always free to seek out another website where the owner may be more sympathetic to your sense of fairness."

LopuZa: Here we go again, more of the "it's my ball if you won't play by my rules go and play somewhere else and with some else's ball. You are laud and clear but not clear enough for all the people visiting your site how unfortunate or they chose to ignore your arrogance.

Post #112:

Robinson:"The article is pure propaganda. And the poster's admitted goals are to see American troops and military destroyed. I'm not gonna have these guys posting anymore of this garbage on this website."

LopuZa: Prove that it is propaganda, don't just say it, saying it won't make it propaganda at least to those of us that are more educated then say average American. Show where the poster in this case, I admitted as goals to see American troops and military who are occupying my country, to be destroyed? Even though, they are in the wrong place at the wrong time executing illegal orders of a proven liar, W.J. Clinton. And of course some more of the childish outburst and threats of disallowing these guys posting anymore, what guys list them? Pretty soon you will ban all except the blind and fateful fools, that would follow you to your grave, they don't know any better, Jim Jones, would be more appropriate then Jim Robinson.

Post #128:

Robinson: "As I've said before, Clinton's war on Serbia is clearly unconstitutional. Only the Congress has the power to declare war. And NATO's actions are also in violation of their charter and are criminal acts. Yes, Goebbels could not have done a better job than Clinton propagandizing his war efforts, but that does not mean we should allow Serbian government propagandists a free forum to post their phony reports and calls for destruction of American and/or Nato forces. Please keep an eye on the bigger picture. The American military is our fighting machine and is made up of our own men. Clinton may be a traitor, but we must stand behind our own military 100%. The ONLY way possible to get out of this mess is for our Congress to impeach Clinton. But they are too cowered by the media to do this. I say impeach him again, even if every Congressman who votes for impeachment gets thrown out of office in November. It would be worth it to rid our government of presidential abuse. The next president will not be so quick to cro…(interrupted).

LopuZa: Here are some more of your madness and contradictions of what you believe in, but the sheep on this site are not clever enough to catch you doing it, on the other hand I bet majority does but chooses to ignore that fact.  First we have this statement "As I've said before, Clinton's war on Serbia is clearly unconstitutional. Only the Congress has the power to declare war. And NATO's actions are also in violation of their charter and are criminal acts." now with this I have no problem except you really don't believe in any of this. Because if you did you would not then say the following "Please keep an eye on the bigger picture. The American military is our fighting machine and is made up of our own men. Clinton may be a traitor, but we must stand behind our own military 100%." With this I have a problem and this clearly shows you stupidity or lack of logic. If the action of the US was illegal, since congress did not declare a war on FRY, and NATO's own charter was violated by the same leaders insistence then h… (interrupted).

Post #134:

Robinson: "It was more than propaganda posted for criticism. The guy was pushing it as truth (ie, he is a propagandist himself) and worse, he was hoping to get our boys killed."

LopuZa: Why don't you show the people the proof of me or any one else as pushing this as the truth or hoping to get our boys killed that statement will always get most Americans attention away from facts, don't you think Mr. Robinson? Don't just say its propaganda show the posters on FR text passages of all the text that clearly show your accusations. That's if you really care what they think!

Post #143:

Robinson: "Well, I hate to sound curt, but too bad."

LopuZa: Here it is again, to bad it's my ball!

Post #144:

Robinson: "Look, why don't you invite these guys over to your forum and you can all sit around and plot the death of our servicemen in Kosovo."

LopuZa: Well while its you Domain name, www.FreeRepublic.com the money to maintain comes from the members that visit and post on this forum, they are the ones that make the site what it is, without them you would have nothing at all, except you would have a Domain name. Again you keep accusing people of plotting the destruction of Americas services man, it won’t happen in cyber space, wake up!

Post #153:

Robinson: "Why? Do you want to kill American soldiers too?"

LopuZa: More accusations to shoot the person debating you, so a good way to shoot him off is ask a stupid question like you did. Get real JR you are worse then Clinton's cronies, just in different clothes, but deep down the same. [etc.]

---

TiM Ed.: The copy of the preceding exchanges we received from LopuZa did not identify each person per se. So TiM has inserted the names based on the context - for ease of reading (we had found it very difficult to follow the thread based on the original format).  But we do not guarantee the accuracy of attributions in each instance.  For a copy of the actual threads, contact the www.FreeRepublic.com.

Some reactions to... "Blair Upstaged by Putin" (TiM GW Bulletin 2000/4-6, May 4, 2000)

U.S. (state unknown) - Great Bulletin!

CINCINNATI, May 6 -  We received the following cryptic comment about the above TiM Bulletin from Cathy Case:

"Great Bulletin!!! Very informative.  Thanks."

Cathy Case (state unknown)

Some reactions to... "One Traitor Exposed, Many More to Go" (TiM GW Bulletin 2000/4-5, Apr. 19, 2000)

U.S. (state unknown) - A Case of High-Tech Treason

CINCINNATI, May 6 - Here's a comment about the above TiM Bulletin we received from Robert Morningstar:

"Dear Bob, I've forwarded your TiM report(s) onto many others via a "Bridgelink" aboard ussjfk.com (a stealth website..."We find you..." is our motto).

Keep up the good work, especially that dealing with international military-industrial "high tech treason" with Red China to whom I shall refer in future as "Chicoms" (JFK's term) to distinguish them from the more decent and respectable Chinese people."

Robert Morningstar,XO, ussjfk.com 

---------------

U.S. (state unknown) - What If It Were Serbia?

HOUSTON, Apr. 19 - Here's a comment about the above TiM Bulletin we received from Ron Ames of Houston, Texas::

"Bob,would you be this upset if Israel was selling the ''Phalcon''/Awacs radar to Serbia?"

To which we replied: 

"Yes. I am an AMERICAN of Serbian descent, not the other way around. Good question, though, Ron! Thank you.

Bob Dj.

P.S. FYI - Israel is doing business with Milosevic anyway - in violation of the U.S.-led embargo, as are many other NATO countries. In the end, the sanctions end up hurting the American companies more than anyone else. Thanks to the Madam Halfbright and her other Clinton administration cohorts."

Some reactions to... “Slavic ‘Montezuma Revenge’” (TiM GW Bulletin 2000/4-7, April 24, 2000)

Holland - Biggest NATO Patsy? Plus, Why the Clinton Administration Encouraged Higher Oil Prices May 9, 2000

HOLLAND, May 8 - We received the following feedback from Mr. Z. Slavujevic of Amsterdam, Holland:

“Dear TIM,

Responding to the TiM Bulletin about Bob's April visit to Serbia. Gasoline prices in Europe are far higher than mentioned in that Bulletin:

        Netherlands:

        gasoline        2.55 nlg = 2.28 dem

        diesel          1.80 nlg = 1.60 dem

        Germany:

        gasoline        1.8-1.9  dem  (difference between in town-on highway)

        diesel          1.4-1.5  dem

Which probably shows that the Holland is the biggest slave of the NWO.”

Z. Slavujevic, Amsterdam, Holland

---

TiM Ed.: Using the above information, plus our own experience in traveling last week through Hungary, Austria, Slovakia and the Czech Republic, and the comments of some of our fellow-passengers who were returning from Italy, we’ve compiled the following table of gasoline prices in the NATO/EU countries vs. the U.S. vs. Serbia:

MAY 2000 - GASOLINE PRICES IN SOME NATO/EU COUNTRIES

 

In local currency

In US $

 

 (per liter)

 (per gallon)

--------------

--------------

--------------

Austria

10.00

$2.76

Czech Republic

28.00

$2.88

Germany

1.90

$3.68

Holland

2.28

$4.42

Hungary

198.17

$2.91

Italy

1,782.00

$3.49

Slovakia

33.00

$2.96

 

 

 

AVERAGE NATO/EU

 

$3.30

 

 

 

U.S. (Arizona)

 

$1.51

 

 

 

SERBIA

18.00

$1.45

 

 

 

Source: Truth in Media, Phoenix, Arizona

---

So, as you can see, the country that NATO attacked and ravaged during its 79-day bombing campaign a year ago; the country that has endured eight years of genocidal U.N and U.S.-led sanctions; the country in which gasoline was as rare as hens teeth a year ago; that country - Serbia - now enjoys lower gasoline prices than the “victorious” NATO/EU countries.  And even the U.S. prices (in Arizona), although less than half that of the average European gasoline prices, are now slightly higher than those in Serbia. 

Such is the price of hollow “victories.”  Except for the multinational oil companies, of course, some of the leading “Princes of the New World Order,” who are laughing all the way to the bank, as the western consumers and taxpayers are reeling under the financial burden of another expensive NWO neo-colonial war.  

Remember the NWO motto, according to TiM: “Perpetual war for perpetual commerce?”  You’re experiencing it every time you fill up at service station.  And this is no accident...

Why Clinton Administration Encouraged Higher Oil Prices

Oil ministers from OPEC nations have quietly told national security advisors on Capitol Hill that the oil production cutbacks -- and resulting price increases -- are being implemented at the request of the Clinton administration on behalf of Russia, Indonesia, Mexico and Iran, the WorldNetDaily reported today (May 9).  

The reason? To pay off bad loans by bad New World Order bankers.  And to drum up business for the American "death merchants." Here's an excerpt from that article:

"Russia, Mexico and Indonesia are reported to be directing their increased oil profits toward paying back overdue Western loans. According to one government defense advisor, the windfall profits are part of a larger scheme to use the American (TiM Ed. and European) public to pay off failed and corrupt investment schemes in the three countries.

"The American public is paying off bad loans to bad countries made by bad bankers," stated a national security advisor.

According to Vice President Al Gore, the recent hike in gas prices is due not to a shortage of oil, but rather to the Clinton administration's deliberate move to encourage an oil price increase.

"I think the reason is because we more or less asked the organization of petroleum producing countries to raise oil prices in helping Russia develop its economy," stated Gore on March 1 in response to a question about rising gas prices.

The largest Middle Eastern oil producers reportedly agreed on the cutback of oil production in order to increase income for weapons purchases. Several oil states have announced major weapons buys from the West, including a recent multi-billion-dollar purchase of Lockheed/Martin F-16 fighter jets."

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TiM READERS' 2000 FORUMS... January, March, May

TiM READERS' 1999 FORUMS... January, February, March, September, December

Also, check out TiM READERS' 1998 FORUMS... April, May Part I May Part II, June , July, August, September, October, November, December Part I, December Part II